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Okay, so I've been trying to get a handle on the characters of Mirage of Blaze for a while, now. They are all pretty difficult, but Kagetora is probably still the most mysterious to me. We see something of Takaya, but our perception of Takaya is nearly as confused as Takaya's view of himself. Takaya never really had a lot of self-knowledge to begin with, and adding a bunch of muddled memories and an identity crisis into the mix doesn't help any. Kagetora, in his full centuries-spanning warlord-ly glory is hinted at, but we just never get as clear an image of him as of the other characters. 

Another problem is that Kagetora likes to keep his feelings bottled up and secret (sometimes even from himself) and he tries to maintain an outward image which doesn't always correspond to the reality. So we get a lot of bystanders carrying away radically different impressions of him. Even the ones who suspect how complicated Kagetora really is wind up formulating theories as to what is actually going on in there which conflict with each other.

So, we get all these outsiders having extreme reactions to him (and they are ALWAYS extreme), and we get some conflicting theories as to what is causing those reactions, and then we get a bit of Kagetora's take on things, which is generally clouded by the fact that he doesn't think much of himself and barely notices the impression he makes on people.

Others: Kagetora is COOL and SEXY and PURE and SCARY and GENTLE and INTENSE and MASTERFUL and CHILDLIKE and MANIPULATIVE and INNOCENT and COLDHEARTED and SENSITIVE and EMPATHETIC and SADISTIC and MASOCHISTIC and CAN'T STAND TO HURT OTHERS and TERRIFIED OF BEING HURT and....just perfect, really. 

Kagetora: I actually kind of really suck. I hope no one notices. *largely oblivious to the extreme reactions*

Reader: ...whaaa?

Oi. And then, making it all even more confusing, there's all the fanon theories of what Kagetora is really like. Which would be all over the place just from what we see in canon (I would think), but the skewed anime makes it a complete mess. Because people get the wrong idea about who Naoe is, and then, seeing what Naoe has done and the way he blames a lot of it on Kagetora, they come up with a rather twisted idea of what sort of person Kagetora must be to make someone like Naoe behave in that way.

-_-;

So, basically, it is really hard to try to understand Kagetora. Making it both fascinating and frustrating to have him as your favorite character. Which he is. *pets*


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labingi From: [info]labingi Date: April 13th, 2008 01:06 am (UTC) (Link)
Kagetora: I actually kind of really suck. I hope no one notices. *largely oblivious to the extreme reactions*

I think you have it there.

Favorite character or not, I have a feeling be wouldn't want to be petted:) And that's as far as I'll venture at assessing his personality (except to say I know my view of him has a lot of fanon that's all a mix of MoB and historical stuff and my own brain).
lady_nara From: [info]lady_nara Date: April 13th, 2008 02:19 am (UTC) (Link)
Ha, no, not by me, anyway.

I would be very interested to see more of your view of him, mixed or not.

I certainly think you have a way of getting to the heart of Naoe's character. Considering that it's through Naoe's lens that we get a lot of our Kagetora insights in canon, I think that it's pretty important to understand the one to understand the other.
labingi From: [info]labingi Date: April 13th, 2008 01:53 pm (UTC) (Link)
Thanks:) I do think Naoe's easier to get at, perhaps because he's more actively self-reflective. As you point out, Kagetora has a great cluelessness about his effects on others, their motivations, maybe his own motivations, etc. Naoe also has his cluelessness, of course, but he seems to spend a lot more time analyzing who he is and what his problems are. Might be a reflection of Naoe's being more of an egoist than Kagetora.
From: [info]meganinhiding Date: April 14th, 2008 06:02 pm (UTC) (Link)
Kagetora reminds me of that parable of the blind men and the elephant; one man touches the elephants ear and decides that its shaped like a fan, one touches the trunk and decides that its like a snake while another thinks its like a wall after touching its side.

While I was looking at volume three on asphodel's site I came across these lines from Haruie while discussing Takaya with Naoe.
I'm starting to think he's not Kagetora. Because he doesn't know anything! And his personality it totally different. Kagetora was considerate and courteous and reliable and intelligent-he was perfect! At least, he was to me. But this kid is totally different. Like he's a totally different person. Except-when he's troubled he has the same look in his eyes as Kageotora did.
I included this exerpt because its a description of what Kagetora is like with all his memories intact and because Takaya in all his loudmouthed glory is out first and perhaps most lasting impression of him.

I also think that early on Kagetora learned to conceal his true feelings starting when he was told he would be sent to the Takeda as a hostage; he certainly tries to conceal the gang rape and the effect its had on him. Petronia in her summary of Gunjou commented on the similiarities between Ujimasa and Kagetora notes they both have a stubborn pride and that they're not good at recognizing their feeling and I think this possibly because of all that time of putting the clan's needs over their own feelings.
lady_nara From: [info]lady_nara Date: May 2nd, 2008 01:48 am (UTC) (Link)
I was thinking of that story when I wrote this, too! It fits.

That's a pretty interesting quote you picked out. I will have to meditate on it. Takaya really does seem so different from Kagetora, on the outside. But the personality he displays as Takaya seems pretty much to be modeled on the classic japanese teenage tough guy. He may no longer be as rough as he used to be, but he still relates to people like a delinquent. He's aggressive and snarly and loud; he takes offense easily, gets violent quickly, takes what he can get from people without really asking or thanking them, and orders everyone around. This is the way that he's learned to protect himself and the people he cares about. He openly confesses that he deliberately set out as a kid to become this sort of person in order to learn how to defend himself and his sister against his father.

Kagetora, on other hand, grew up in a very different time period and situation. The way he learned to protect himself was through hiding his emotions beneath courtesy and duty and honor (whereas Takaya the teenage delinquent learned to funnel everything into anger and to project that as forcefully as possible). I think you're right about the hostage situation causing him to conceal his true feelings, especially, and also about no longer being able to recognize their true feelings because of all the time spent sacrificing them for the good of others'.
From: [info]meganinhiding Date: May 4th, 2008 10:00 pm (UTC) (Link)
I once described Takaya as Kagetora without 400 years of memories but that implies to an extent that he's the "real" Kagetora when its actually just the same man growing up and adapting to different values, upbringing and circumstances.

Kagetora the perfect samurai and Takaya the tough guy delinquent are in part facades to keep others at a distance since neither upbringing would encourage trust and communication. This makes me wonder what it would have been like if Kagetora had ended up with a functional, supportive family like the Tachibanas.(Naoe really was forunate to have gotten them)
lady_nara From: [info]lady_nara Date: May 25th, 2008 07:56 am (UTC) (Link)
Kagetora the perfect samurai and Takaya the tough guy delinquent are in part facades to keep others at a distance since neither upbringing would encourage trust and communication.

Mm, good point. The hostile, "delinquent" attitude of Takaya particularly strikes me as a way to prevent any false or shallow kindness. He is so vulnerable to kindness, and he has been so betrayed, that putting people on a negative footing right off the bat seems like a protective measure. A good example would be his habit of glaring at people when he first meets them. As you say, his tone, expression, all his body language just screams "stay away."

This makes me wonder what it would have been like if Kagetora had ended up with a functional, supportive family like the Tachibanas.

Yes, I wonder. Such a family might have helped him to heal somewhat, as Yuzuru did, when he entered the picture. I don't think Takaya would have been an entirely happy, well-adjusted kid, even with the best family, though. It seems to be implied that, although he couldn't recall specific events, he retained, at the least, some emotional impressions from his past. Thus we have him commenting on having felt like he was missing someone all those years when he walked alone in the night, and suddenly realizing that it was Naoe he'd been missing. I wouldn't be at all surprised if his life, though seemingly untouched by his previous possessions before Naoe found him, had been affected in other ways that he hadn't been able to recognize.
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